Curse

lord_shar · Feb 19, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Read my other post, it is not mistagged. The n00b CompUSA in this example clearly has a manager that goes "1+1=3", "look mummy, I'm a buzyness man" and "what's profit? I sell a 2000 laptop for $20". There is no mistake, it is advertised as it is, the same way a newbie in ascalon would try to sell black dye for $3000 when the dye trader right next to him would say it is worth twice that.

So you come along and exploit that.

Is that scamming?

Sure it's mistagged, especially if they are selling well below cost. Merchandizers are not allowed to sell below cost except with discontinued products and promotions. Otherwise they lose their reseller status. I'm guessing you have retail experience?

But once again, this is a story about a mistagged item, not a person advertising a house, taking payment for a house, then delivering a tent. You are confusing mis-pricing vs. mis-representation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

And don't give me all that BS about courts and stuff, CompUSA won't have a prayer THEMSELVES if they fail to detect that error and let their customers walk home with $2000 laptops sold to them at $20. You seriously think any judge is going to subpeona these customers from some fussy video tape recording of the checkout counter? Try harder.

They can stop you at the counter, IT IS NO DIFFERENT FROM THE SELLER IN GUILD WARS SAYING NO BEFORE PRESSING THE ACCEPT BUTTON. Get over it.

Like I said, resellers are not allowed to sell below cost without losing their resale license for that product.

Try to move beyond Mother Goose... please?

EDIT: Hint... I've worked with Comp-USA's pricing terminal system. It lists both cost and retail price. The retail price can't go below cost without a manager's password overide. So, the story above will only happen for promotions and discontinued items at the register. They also use the last 2 digits of the price to classify new/current vs. discontinuted products as a failsafe vs. mis-pricing. Comp-USA is covered by anti-misprint clauses like all other retaillers. Lastly, most modern computer super-stores no longer stamp prices on shelf products... that's what SKU's are for.

generik · Feb 19, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

But once again, this is a story about a mistagged item, not a person advertising a house, taking payment for a house, then delivering a tent. You are confusing mis-pricing vs. mis-representation.

Just to iterate, I'm not even an American, CompUSA could well have been OfficeWorks or FutureShop for all I care.

And so what if the store in question loses their resale license? You are speaking as those that outlet is remotely sane. Hello, I'm using it as an example of someone selling something for way less than it is worth. Hello, do you get it? Perhaps you should stay working at CompUSA because you are so full of retail experience, and no, thankfully I never had the good fortune of working there.

lord_shar · Feb 19, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Just to iterate, I'm not even an American, CompUSA could well have been OfficeWorks or FutureShop for all I care.

And so what if the store in question loses their resale license? You are speaking as those that outlet is remotely sane. Hello, I'm using it as an example of someone selling something for way less than it is worth. Hello, do you get it? Perhaps you should stay working at CompUSA because you are so full of retail experience, and no, thankfully I never had the good fortune of working there.

What makes you think I still work at Comp-USA? That was well over a decade ago, and I only used the position for the PC component discounts as a hard-core LAN gamer. One of my co-workers there was a professor who gave lectures about circuits, but he sold Mac's to get the employee pricing. I've move onto the corporate world since then...

Also, why use examples you have no first-hand knowlege about? Doesn't this undercut personal credibility? Why use examples at all? Just state the facts... it causes much less confusion and is much more persuasive.

eom · Feb 19, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

EDIT: Hint... I've worked with Comp-USA's pricing terminal system. It lists both cost and retail price. The retail price can't go below cost without a manager's password overide. So, the story above will only happen for promotions and discontinued items at the register. They also use the last 2 digits of the price to classify new/current vs. discontinuted products as a failsafe vs. mis-pricing. Comp-USA is covered by anti-misprint clauses like all other retaillers. Lastly, most modern computer super-stores no longer stamp prices on shelf products... that's what SKU's are for.

heh....burn.

if some noob was spamming WTS BLACK AT HALF PRICE BECAUSE I AM A N00B!!11 and somebody took him up on it, then I would say there was no scamming.
which is apparently the situation you have dreamed up, and is a completely different situation than we were talking about.

scamming is where the unfairly advantaged post player /dances on up to the ignorant dye traderless noob in pre and convinces said noob that 10 gold is a great deal for black dye because it's not even worth that much ---- that's deception, ie a lie ie scamming ie being a dick.
call it whatever you want.

can you see the difference?

lord_shar · Feb 19, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by eom

heh....burn.

Who is the above comment directed at?

Quote:

Originally Posted by eom

if some noob was spamming WTS BLACK AT HALF PRICE BECAUSE I AM A N00B!!11 and somebody took him up on it, then I would say there was no scamming.
which is apparently the situation you have dreamed up, and is a completely different situation than we were talking about.

scamming is where the unfairly advantaged post player /dances on up to the ignorant dye traderless noob in pre and convinces said noob that 10 gold is a great deal for black dye because it's not even worth that much ---- that's deception, ie a lie ie scamming ie being a dick.
call it whatever you want.

can you see the difference?

I agree that paying the requested price for the desired product is not a scam.

Scams take several forms, including deceiving someone about their item's actual price to get a better deal, vs. advertising an item, then taking the payment without delivering the promised product.

The term "scam" is used very broadly in this thread. No one contests that deceptive price quoting is unethical, while paying a stated, uncoerced price is acceptable. However, most honest traders won't knowingly clean someone out even if given the opportunity. It's up to the individual to decide where to draw the line.

DABhand · Feb 19, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Man generik and eom are the most contradicting pair ive seen, I used an anology to talk about something, they say you shouldnt, then they do it..

eom tries in another thread to start me to flame him, which i wasnt stupid enough to fall for.

Generik just spouts out random generated crap lol IMHO, but he can deal with a debate very well, unlike eom, who just says im dumb, then spamming, then flaming.. pfff

Anyways. doesnt matter the means or who is the victim, stealing is wrong, scamming is wrong. And no not all victims are to blame, thats the type of excuse thats involved today.

Politicians say it was other peoples faults but never their own..
Worker picks up a box with bottom open because boss put it in that way, but boss blames worker.
Driver going to work, wheel goes funny due to factory defect, driver drives into bus of kids and both blow up, drivers fault somehow.

This is what people do, they blame others so they can sweep it under the preverbial carpet and forget about it, when they cant even have the time etc to help find out the root of the problem.

eom · Feb 19, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DABhand

Man generik and eom are the most contradicting pair ive seen, I used an anology to talk about something, they say you shouldnt, then they do it..

eom tries in another thread to start me to flame him, which i wasnt stupid enough to fall for.

Generik just spouts out random generated crap lol IMHO, but he can deal with a debate very well, unlike eom, who just says im dumb, then spamming, then flaming.. pfff

where could I have gotten that impression........?

save the frustrated rants and personal attacks for your blog, plz.

ps

don't remember saying anything about analogies --- quote or stfu.

edit:

if you haven't figured out the root of the problem yet, I'll tell you:
a bunch of goofy kids and go red engines.

Zakarr · Feb 19, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

WTB ecto 7k

Okay, he is buying ectoplasm for 7 platinum. I open trade and put an ecto. Buyer puts 7 gold instead 7 platinum. That is a scam attempt. The deal was 7 platinum, not 7 gold. Yup, you can just cancel the trade but that n00b consumed my time and delayed selling process because someone really would had paid 7 platinum but I wasted my time for a scammer. Annoying POS so I take a screenshot before closing the trade and report him.

You won't lose your money or items but you will lose time when someone tries to scam you.

DABhand · Feb 19, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by eom

where could I have gotten that impression........?

save the frustrated rants and personal attacks for your blog, plz.

ps

don't remember saying anything about analogies --- quote or stfu.

edit:

if you haven't figured out the root of the problem yet, I'll tell you:
a bunch of goofy kids and go red engines.

That was for generik the anology (not analogies dunno why you would spell it like that) I used was about the girl being raped scenario, he said anologies arent the same then he proceeds to use one in this thread.

I dont have a blog, nor will I ever bother to run a blog.

I see you dont like it when the shoe is on the other foot. Ill leave that one to you to figure out.

You first stated that its the new players fault for being scammed, then in the post above you shyed away from that. So yes you are being hypocritical or perhaps inciting, like you did about the IQ post of yours.

I can see you being one of those players who would take advantage of new players and prices, or one that loves to call everyone new in the game noob, as for example "ATTACK HIM NOOB!! FFS NOOB!! WTF NOOB!! YOU NOOB NOOB!!"

Why have I came to this decision? Ive read some of your other posts in and around the forum, apart from the obvious attack on myself in the other "scam" thread, where you attacked my intelligence out of the blue, you do try to incite flames in others. And please dont even say ive been here longer, that is true, but that doesnt mean squat.

Im a firm believer of fair play and that people who dont should be punished, now if the mods here view this post as a flame which it is not intended to be so and they edit it then no problem, I only ask they read your other posts and do the same.

eom · Feb 19, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DABhand

That was for generik the anology (not analogies dunno why you would spell it like that)

because when I was in elementary school they taught me how to spell.

that joke I made was apparently a little more insightful than I had expected.

ps

stop cyberstalking me, plz --- it's creeping me out.

Kai Nui · Feb 19, 2006, 06:54 PM // 18:54

No such thing as scamming. It's completely your fault to accept a trade for an expensive amount without being careful.

Cjlr · Feb 19, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

No such thing as scamming. It's completely your fault to accept a trade for an expensive amount without being careful.

While I agree with the intent, I would disagree as to the specifics.

Scamming definately exists - I would call it the purposeful, intentional attempt to... er... scam... somebody. You know what I mean. Swindle, hoax, cheat, beguile, defraud, trick, etc...

Whether YOU fall for it, well, that's the catch.

FreTzer · Feb 20, 2006, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by eom

ok, you and rilder really need counseling.
just as a tiny step fwd, could you post the name of the person who threw the glass of coke at your wall?

ps -- rilder

could you tell us how you got cheated out of the item that made you cry?

~ signed,
dr phil

Dear Dr Phil

*crying* You have made me realize that I really need help!! Could you PLEASE, in all your wisdome and glory, HELP ME!! I´m living on the edge, close to falling down in a deep, dark hole of anger, due to all the scammers. My world is falling apart, I´ve lost my job and my girlfriend left me, taking the apartment, my car, my money, my dog and my turtle. I don´t know what to do.

Could you please HELP me Dr Phil?

/The angry, unemployed patient who misses his turtle

demonblade · Feb 20, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

1. If you bought an overpriced item, whose fault is that? The seller?
2. If they "changed their mind" and scammed you with 75 gold instead of 75 plat, whose fault is that? The buyer?
3. If you thought you bought ecto but instead you got something else, whose fault is that? The seller?

It is your fault to rush in deals and click the wonderful "Accept" button BEFORE you check the amount of money and item you are getting. Sure, it is the scammers' fault for scamming you, but it is your own stupidity that make you fall for their lowest tricks.

*For the overpricing one: welcome to the real world.

Kook~NBK~ · Feb 20, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonblade

1. If you bought an overpriced item, whose fault is that? The seller?
2. If they "changed their mind" and scammed you with 75 gold instead of 75 plat, whose fault is that? The buyer?
3. If you thought you bought ecto but instead you got something else, whose fault is that? The seller?

It is your fault to rush in deals and click the wonderful "Accept" button BEFORE you check the amount of money and item you are getting. Sure, it is the scammers' fault for scamming you, but it is your own stupidity that make you fall for their lowest tricks.

*For the overpricing one: welcome to the real world.

1 - Yeah, that could be the buyer's fault, but there's a lot on new players that don't know the market value of items - Weapons & Off-Hands, especially. For things bought and sold by merchants, newbies may not think to check the merchants' prices first.

2. "changed their minds? - NO, the scammer in that instance knew exactly what he was going to try to pull before he even started the trade.

3. It's the scammer who instigated it, he's responsible.

Now, If you had read my previous post, you would know that a person's trust and faith in other people and the fact that they get in a hurry are the things that the scammers rely on to pull their scams off. So, ULTIMATELY, it is the scammer who's responible for the problem, as they are the instigators.

demonblade · Feb 21, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

If they are to post "I got scammed" posts here, I am sure they had read through all the other "I got scammed" posts before them. After all these if they still fall for it... I have nothing to say.

I never said it is not the scammers' faults; they are resposible for such behaviors. I said it is the scammed people's fault for putting so much trust and faith into someone you never met in your life, and didn't raise a single doubt of "will he/she scam me?" Sure, the game is not the real world, but it is played by people FROM the real world (excluding bots, they should get banned instead of flamed).

* for "changed their mind": if they put 75 gold at the beginning, I am sure you will catch it; but if they changed it after both party agreed on 75 plat but changed later, that is what most scammers do, it is their fault for not recheck everything.

Whiplashr · Feb 21, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Ya know, I really have been shocked by reading alot of the messages in this thread. This whole song and dance about who's fault it is.. People who are clearly scammers who have their hackles up and are trying to find a way to defend it without giving away they are scammers, etc. (Don't lie people, it's as obvious as hell, and psychologically valid. Anyone who would try to defend it on any level is clearly someone who condones it).

The most amusing is the ongoing attempt to blame the victim.

I have news for you scammers.

If you set out to purposely defraud someone. IE, you plan to offer gold instead of platinum, or items that look like the item in question, rather than what they expect.. That makes you a loser and person of questionable moral values.

It doesn't need to get as far as "but they accepted the trade". Right there, before you even start the trade, you are already in the wrong. You are already scum. You are setting out to cheat someone. It doesn't matter if they accept it or not. Their acceptance in no way minimizes the fact that you are a piece of crap who is trying to cheat someone else. Period. You are at fault before they even do anything. I repeat, THEIR ACCEPTANCE OF THE TRADE IN NO WAY MINIMIZES THE FACT THAT YOU SET OUT TO CHEAT THEM TO BEGIN WITH.

Keep on rationalizing kids. It's really quite humorous for me (and probably many others).

demonblade · Feb 21, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

It is also really interesting to read countless posts of "I got scammed" and endless whining of "me too," especially the "me too" part. LEARN, that what most people need to do instead of posting one after one after one... of these posts, we already got the "Biggest jerk" post.
Before I would say it is purely the scammers' fault, but now? People post here EVERYDAY about how they got scammed, unless you are new player who thought online game is all about trusting and caring (you have to admit, there are some), and never ever read any of these posts, then I will say the scammers are the lowest of all scums. However, most of the people who post "I got scammed" here are not new players, they know there are A LOT of people out there trying to scam them, and they still fall for it. Now tell me, who is to blame?

* While I am at it, I got called a scammer after running a few people to Amnoon Oasis while I advertise "Running to Crystal Desert for free!" His respond was "this is amnoon oasis not crystal desert you noob"

Loviatar · Feb 21, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonblade

People post here EVERYDAY about how they got scammed, unless you are new player who thought online game is all about trusting and caring (you have to admit, there are some), and never ever read any of these posts, then I will say the scammers are the lowest of all scums.

. Now tell me, who is to blame?

a depressing number of the i got scammed posters are (and were) town dwellers making their first posts asking how to report a scammer in the hope that they could stop it from happening to someone else.

note that forum readers (let alone posters) are a very tiny minority of players

a scammer is not a person who stumbles on a dollar on the sidewalk and picks it up.

they are people who carefully plan to rip off as many people each day that they can.

that is their purpose in playing

that is their intent.

i know of (but have not/will not use) a scam which someone told me of that has at least a 50% success rate even with fairly careful people and almost 100% with new people.

you would possibly fall for it

no i will not spread it but sincerely hope nobody elso does.

your best bet is to check everything twice and never make a sale for less than xxplat and 11 gold.

the 11 gold is your guarantee of no plat for gold switch.

if they object to the extra 11 gold drop them as if they were radioactive.

as for who is to blame it is the scammer because they intend to steal even if they are not successful in doing it.

example

a burglar goes out and this night finds out that every place he intended to burgle installed a top security system since he was there last casing the place.

he got nothing but if not for the security systems he would have robbed the places.

the scammer intends to steal

his victim may be trusting, careless, or the baby may need something NOW

but they are victims and the scammer is causing more victims

eom · Feb 21, 2006, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

i know of (but have not/will not use) a scam which someone told me of that has at least a 50% success rate even with fairly careful people and almost 100% with new people.

you would possibly fall for it

no i will not spread it but sincerely hope nobody elso does.

great --- so you're just going to stand by and let half of us get scammed.
thanks a lot.